Category: Let's talk
Hi all,
Lately I've had some ideas bouncing around in my head of a website where people can discuss some of the more taboo subjects that come along with being blind. These include, but are not limited to:
topics of dating and sex among the blind, such as societal and familial attitudes towards these subjects, especially where it is discouraged. This can also include fertility and parenting issues, especially as it relates to oppression of such expression. Techniques to overcome these attitudes can be discussed, as well as personal insights on parenting, issues surrounding blind couples, such as when one partner is more independent than the other or when one's attitude is radically different (i.e dealing with someone who has not adjusted to blindness and you have.)
Emotional problems, such as depression, as they relate to blindness. Examples of this would be growing up in abusive homes where you were the target of most of the abuse because of your disability, the effects of bullying, or just depression or other emotional problems in general. This is meant to be a support group of sorts.
Experiences from those who attended schools for the blind. This is the big one. Whether negative or positive, let your voices be heard. Though I searched extensively, I have not found any such site, especially when it comes to negative experiences. I think it's about time that some of the things that have been done are exposed. As someone who personally experienced a lot of injustice in a school for the blind, I know personally that I would feel a lot better if my story got out there. In fact, sometimes I think it's the only way I can come to terms with the anger and pain they caused me. But that's neither here nor there at this point.
A comparison of training centers, for adults and teens, both NFB and state-sponsored. This was brought up some time ago on the topic "NFB AND Structured Discovery, but as far as I know, nothing ever became of it. While I would personally like to see the NFB shut down, I also feel it's important to capture the broad spectrum so that people can at least say they're making informed decisions, because at this point I don't think there's a database accurate enough for many people to make such important judgment calls.
Now, this is just an outline. I'm sure I'll think of more ideas, and I would first have to learn html to even get such a site off the ground, but that gives me time to gather members, support, and even figure out if it's a good idea. So I want to hear honest opinions here, whether they're negative or positive, as long as you're not bashing me I'll take anything into account.
One more thing. Should the website be strictly a forum? Should it include an advice column? Research, articles, all of the above? As I said this idea is still new to me and I've got all kinds of thoughts racing through my head about it, so I'll take any suggestions, direction, pointers etc. Thanks for reading this, and I hope to receive a lot of feedback.
I think it's a great idea...maybe you should do something where we can discuss our problems and my main thing is to help others who isn't as independent as I am...well in my opinion. Also, share my life story and hopefully find others just like me...so anyhow I think it's a great idea.
I like it there should be forms, but the site shouldn't only be forms. There should be a link to stories that blind users can submit, a email news letter of sorts, maybe a FAQ section, and a quiz about these types of things. I like it, great idea. There should also be something on how diffacult it can be for younger blind kids to interact with other sighted people. I've found it fairly easy, but sometines it was tough, and you had it the worst going to a sighted school were the kids were little assholes.
I like this idea too, about having discussion forums where all the issues you mentioned can be discussed. Also, I do think it'd also be cool if their was a list of resources maybe that can help and also a listing of all the training centers (both NFB and not), with some info about each one, as I don't think I've ever seen such a listing.
All these topics have been discussed here, in some fashion, as far as I'm aware, although it would be nice, as you said, to have a support group, where nobody is put down for any reason, although you could argue that the Safe Haven board here meets those needs. Might I suggest an Email list? Although I really don't know how to create one.
I agree with you Ocean Dream, however I think that because of the drama and stuff on the zone people hesitate to discuss such issues, especially those relating to their mental health. I think one feature of this website is that you can be anonymous if you want, but also have the option to use your own name if you want. It just depends on the person's comfort level. I've also considered an email list, but I don't really think I want to do that because a website will be much easier to access. The issue I have is that a lot of these problems or topics don't come up on a Google search, and I want to change that.
maybe you could just create another board on this site that's maybe a bit more monitored. I think a separate website would be kind of redundant, and a lot of your subscribers would already be members of this website. Is there a support group in your area where you could maybe bounce these ideas off of your peers? As far as negative oppinions, those exist anywhere, so just try not to take them too personally. Maybe start a mental health board or a blind school board.
Turtle, I do support your idea. However, a few words of caution. You're going to have drama no matter where you go, or what site you create. Where there is a diverse crowd of people, diverging opinions, varying intelectual levels, and so forth, you are going to have drama to one degree or another.
Second, this is the Internet. So, even on a site that purports to be safe, I would caution anyone to mind what they say. Keep in mind that pretty much any info you put out on the Net can be traced, so if you don't want people knowing it, then it's best not to put it on any website. I've had to learn this through some hard experience.
However, I admire your idea. I don't have any concrete ways to help you implement it, but should you decide to do so, I would check it out. Smile.
I see your point about the drama, you have that everywhere, even in real life. But there are some incredibly helpful and supportive forums out there on the internet, and that's what I intend for this to be. That's not all it would be though. This is also for statistical purposes, for anyone who would want to research such issues, and even for sighted people to gain a better understanding of the issues we face if they were to come across it.
As for creating a topic like that here, I wouldn't do it for the simple fact that I have many different ideas, and they wouldn't really fit into one topic without being confusing. I also think that having variety is refreshing, and of course it wouldn't be exactly like the zone. In fact, I wouldn't even consider it a social network. Asking for opinions here isn't a call for everyone to run to this new site whenever it gets up and running, just maybe a new perspective on issues we don't normally talk about here.
oh gosh. just what we need another site where we can whine about instead of work toward solving our problems. what happens to us can either hold us back or push us forward. let's have it be a board on this forum. please not a separate site. what would you call it?
thank you Holly; I couldn't have said it better myself.
sorry to be the second spoil sport here, but wining about what bad experiences we've had at schools for the blind/wherever else doesn't change things for better or worse. why not use said experiences to teach you/help you do your best in life?
as someone who has had bad experiences at schools for the blind/elsewhere, I can relate to what you and others have gone through. however, you don't see me bitching about it...life goes on, and we can either choose to let things make us or break us.
I'm sure I'll get flack for my opinion, but such is life.
She said a support group, not a place to whine. Other than the fact that you can't avoid drama anywhere you go, I think it's a good idea. Think of support groups like A.A. (alcoholics Anonimous). Do people go there to whine about their problem? Well, I'm sure, in some respects, they do, but they're there to be supportive. Yes, you need to take your negative experiences from life and make the most of them, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have a place you can talk about it with people in similar situations. Does that mean there should be an entire site dedicated to this? Well, that's completely opinion based, but if you people think support groups are only a place to whine, well, then, you don't have to go there.
ooo yeah!, lets have another! blind community driven, insular and divisive website...just what we need to cut us off even further from the societies we live in...or since most of you seem to be american, society you live in.
If you want the blind community to cut you off from the rest of society, that's your deal. If alcoholics only wanted to asociate with people in their support group, that's their deal. If religious people only want to associate with other people in their church, that's their deal. If atheists only want to associate with other atheists, that's their deal. If Americans only want to associate with other Americans, that's their deal. See my point?
I go two ways on this:
Not needing another site, but these sites don't really cut us off: we do or don't as the case may be.
For me, this site has been quite educational and rather a 'coming out' point if you will. There are things on here I've seen discussed I've frankly never discussed in regular life: Us blind bats are really spread out geographically. I'm not into support groups and stuff would rather head bang out a solution than hear some stories like what the natives told around the campfires but these sites don't insulate.
That was the fear of some people growing up: Were I ever ever ever to meet a blind person I would somehow become insulated or something, nevermind the preposterous geographic problem with that conclusion.
Any one of us who have solved any rare problem of any sort most 'normal' people don't solve do appreciate being able to datamine a given site. Any good data mining has a BS filter.
Oh and IMHO because I frequent developers' forums where some young inexperienced tomfools complain about users - the very people that pay us, - that doesn't make me insulated from the user. Doesn't mean I play MUDS for three days and not shower, just means I can't go to my buddies over beers with said challenges: many of them do totally different things for a living.
Like anything else it's all what you do with it.
Okay I had cancer and growing up was tough. I would of killed to have some type of support just fellow people to say okay I get what your going through. It wasn't until I was 9 until I went to a camp for cancer survivers until I felt better about the crap I went through and knew I wasn't alone. No camp for the blind can do this type of thing that the cancer surviver camp could for the simple reason we all been through similar situations sure it was a different level of cancer, but eather way it was a level of hell we could relate to. Being blind everyone has a different story of being put down, spoiled, exetra. Its harder to relate because we all come from different arieas with familys that treat us different there is to many variables I think a form is exactly what we need. Also alot of it is if you talk about this with other blind friends they most likely say well what can we do, or I here ya, but no support comes from any of this. For some people this is really hard, and its unfair to say that we're wining, we all just want someone to relate to. I know a lot about that when I was 7 growing up I never felt more alone in my life. This form will give blind people the support to move on, and to know there are people that have crappy stories to tell too.
Besides, it's not really like we're all feeding off each other's misery. Have you ever seen a site dedicated to telling stories of abuse, depression, bullying, etc.? I've seen plenty. There's strength in numbers, and I want an archive like that except for blind people. Maybe it's not necessary, but I do think for research purposes it might help a sighted person understand that we go through shit like anybody else. We're not all sheltered, and some of us understand harsher realities of life. It just brings a new dimension to the table. To give an idea, I'm going to paste the 2 sites here that have come closest to what I want, but seeing as how both are no longer active, I think it's time another stpes up to take their place.
This one is called Thought Provoker. I used to be a member of it, and they discussed all kinds of different things relating to blindness in a way I've never seen done on the zone before. Granted I do have all qn's turned off but certainly not on the boards.
http://thoughtprovoker.info/
This other site is called Blindness in Depth. As you can see if you take a look at it, it had potential to be what I wanted, but if you click on the links such as emotional impact of vision loss, you'll find that they don't exist. You can't even access them through the internet archive. Anyway, here's the link.
http://www.growingstrong.org/blindness/
Oops, that should have been steps in my last post. One other thing that I forgot to say before. The reason I feel so strongly about the issues surrounding bad experiences people have at schools for the blind is because so many people are afraid to speak out, even though conditions are abominable at some of them. Maybe not so much physically, but mentally they beat people down, make them feel they'll never be anything in life and dumb down the curriculum to the point where a person entering college is likely to be completely overwhelmed by the sudden increased, yet normal, workload. This needs to stop! If people finally feel safe speaking out, then maybe things will change. At this time, though, society's general push to suppress all emotions and individuality is not conducive to such expression, maybe especially so among the blind since we are more often than not silenced and expected to just lay down and take everything they dish out because we shouldn't know any better.
I've never really experienced any of this, aside from the general frustration of wanting to do things that sighted people can i.e. drive, pick up anything and read it without a scanner, travel anywhere without having to learn routes etc. But I don't see what's wrong with having a support group. After all, there are groups for other problems and issues, as has been pointed out, and I think that a more focussed one with a peer support attitude can really be helpful, especially for those who may not feel comfortable talking on a normal board. Perhaps, you can make the site open but can lock certain parts with a password or at least make them available only to people who log in so that there could be privacy for the more sensative topics. In any case, good luck and if I can think of anything that might help, I'll let you know.
I think this is an excellent idea. Although I've never joined a support group, I don't see any problem with them. We do live in a society where emotional suppression is pushed, so creating a place where people can whine, rant, rave, comfort and support is always nice. Sometimes, there is no better feeling than having someone listen to you whine or rant and saying: "I understand you completely," then share experiences or similar/identical emotions. I believe that feeling alone in a low emotional state is one of the worst things to feel.
I want to address what some people have expressed as somehow cutting ourselves off from society. I think sometimes, we need to gather with our own and share experiences that, let's be honest, sighted people would never understand. People need to have somewhere where they can vent and tell their stories where they are not told their feelings are invalid or they're delusional or broken and need the supernatural to repair them or that their just losers and freaks and worthless. If that will involve some whining, so be it. I'd rather whine than use weapons, as I'm a horrible shot. LOL!
Turricane and Fighter, a support group does not mean whining. If you think so, then you both have a grave misconception of support groups, or have never seen a good one. Just because you do not need support is no reason to criticize others for it. And, in my opinion, everyone needs to whine occasionally. It's excessive whining that gets annoying. Yes, you see some of that, and I won't hesitate to call people out on it. But sometimes, something that starts as whining can turn constructive.
Bermuda, I don't think sites like this cut people off from the rest of the world unless they allow it. I've seen many a Zoner who seems to have no life off this site. However, many others do, including me. I'm a CL here, but I manage to have work, a social life, and so on.
Well said, Godzilla and Ocean.
SisterDawn, thank you for saying exactly what I was trying to say, but way better. You know, one thing I find really inspiring is just reading someone's story; no exaggeration, opinion, but just the cold hard facts of the story, whether positive or negative. Don't get me wrong, I'm open to opinions as well, but sometimes reading a story can help just as much as someone agreeing with you on a certain topic.
first of all, i would like to say that i have nothing against support groups. if these truly do the job they are supposed to do then they are great. it has been my experience that in the ones I have attended, instead of helping me to strive for better, the members validated the negative issues or whatever that people expressed. I have been impressed with twelve step programs because they are nonjudgmental. Many other so called support groups do not perform as advertised. perhaps i have have participed in poorly run examples. additionally, i think it is inappropriate to have our emotions and feelings available to researchers. why we believe that blindness in itself is a motive for research is beyond the scope of my pitiful intelligence.
Knowledge is power, and research is knowledge. People are more likely to believe anything they see in written form, after all, why do you think so many scams and hoaxes exist? So why not take advantage of this flaw and do something good with it for once?
thanks once again, Holly, for very eloquently stating my feelings.
Post 24 say that to all the now sober people that went through such support groups, same with rehab groups, and groups for support for kids with cancer, and other related issues. Support groups do a lot of good, and it depends on how you are willing to work with them. I fermly belief in research, and education to the sighted world about blind people. I can't tell you how many times I've been shuvved through doors, talked to like I'm 5 and other acts that make me sick inside. This is exactly what wee need.
i agree that knowledge ispower, but I don't want my emotional life examined by some phd, which stands for piled higher and deeper for a dissertation. most of wht those so called blindness professionals write is bogus. you can take the ogu out of the middle of that adjective and figure out what i really think. I don't object to a support group but if I need assistance from others, I would hope would be confidential thank you very much.
i think having a support group that a researcher can look at is dehumanizing. like is said in the previous email, confidentiality is key. if some dipshi* masters in rehab counselor candidate can look at our thoughts, why share them? sighted people are not expected to have their thoughts about their troubled pasts open for general viei=wing and dilectation. You can do what you want scraeaming turtle about support group for researchers, but I for one would not participate. Oh yes, there are plenty of sites devoted to disabled ettiquette etc. how would a sighted person or a researcher benefit from knowing that people had bad experiences at schools for the blind? Everyone has bad experiences with somehthing or other in their childhood. How we react to these shows our character.
I should hope that if a site such as this were ever to be created, it would be password protected, and anybody caught sharing confidential information from others' posts would be banned.
Do keep in mind that you don't need to join this support group, but for those who want to, why not?
Yes, of course it would be password protected. The point about schools for the blind is that so many people are afraid to speak out that none do at all, and if they do they're quickly silenced if they're found out. I'll give an example. There was a guy who went to the school I attended and a year or so before I came, he decided to leave and he went to a Catholic school. He was in a local newspaper about 2 years ago for playing basketball or something, and he and his mom both said in the interview that once he left the school for the blind he got a much better education. That was all he said. You would not believe the shit storm it caused among the teachers. You would have thought he was accusing them of heinous crimes. One of them said she knew an editor for that paper, and she was going to call them and try to get her own interview in there so that the school wouldn't look bad. Excuse me, but if you're that paranoid over such a little comment, you really do have something much bigger to hide, and believe me they do. So that's what I want to do, expose them, break the silence, all of that.
I've known many people who went to a blind school. Most of the comments have been negative, although a few people have told me that the education was good, but the rest was not. I've never been to one myself, but without doing so, I can say that going to public school, in a way, got me ready for my adult life, because I wasn't around other blind people most of the time, I got used to the work not being in an accessible format from the get-go, and I got to stay in my home town.
Out here the school for the blind apparently was running *without* accreditation. Um? what the hell is a public institution doing even existing without accreditation? Look up Oregon School For the Blind and find out. No, I never went, I'm just speaking as a tax payer, if we matter. They closed the dumb thing, but if anything ever could prove my point about the comparison between the segregation of the blind and of African Americans pre-1960s, this certainly did.
Bet those fools talked a lot about what some call blindness skills - I still find that a funny term, but anyway they want to talk skills and 'isms' ... an excuse - and a lousy one at that - for not being accredited? Specialization would typically denote the basics are well covered before we specialize? So why not perform academically first? The reason kiddies go to school in the first place? I hope they build a dog pound or a crematorium or something else more useful than the 'educational?' institution there. Has anyone else on here *ever* heard of a public institution that loses its accreditation and continues to run?
I reiterate: it is not "the same water".
I heard about that. When I looked it up on Google, all I found was an article with a bunch of former students crying about how it meant so much to them and how it wasn't true that they were running without accreditation. Sounds a bit like brainwashing to me, or maybe they just didn't know any better, but that one really made me go wow. I'm glad it's shut down, but I'd certainly be interested to hear from someone who went there.
Didn't know the kiddies were crying: so the northwest accreditation of Schools and Colleges, I think it's called, is just what? Making this up? Now that's a stretch ... even for what I have now learned is the blind community. That's a real .... reach
yes i have heard of schools which lost their accreditation still being in business. that is why they put a lot of baltimore city schools under a private company back in the 90s.
Well if a private institution wants to be unaccredited that's their affair though I think they owe it to parents to let them know. My problem is a public, tax-payer-sponsored, educational institution being non-accreditted. They're not worthy of our tax dollars if they're not providing the same diplomas and such as everyone else.
Turtle, I like it and if I didn't have so much going on I would gladly start building such a site.
I think a site like that is, overall, a good idea. About to what extent it should be protected, I think definately the discussions should, and maybe the advice collumn. I think one of those is a great idea by the way! I also think a section of user-submitted stories on various topics under different sections is a good idea, or maybe with a weekly or monthly topic. For example, one section could be school and training fascility experiences, one could be interactions with sited people, Etc. I'm not sure, and I know people have different opinions on this, but I think it could be useful to keep this section available for the public to read. These stories would not necessarily be highly emotional content, it would just be as one poster said, the cold hard facts, just as they were. I think it might be useful for sighted people, or even other blind people who don't get why we're so upset about blind schools and such to have the chance to see for themselves just why.